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S.W.
Mr. Seurat, when we learned you did a short film about
George Cup & Steve Elliott in 1978 in their studio
in Easthampton, the Stuff of the Research Center was
surprised and glad about this discovery. Nobody had any
knowledge about this film.
M.S.
Maybe because it was never displayed in a Gallery or
Museum. In fact I didn’t wanted anyone to see this
little film after what had happened during the recording
in 1978 and by the consequences I had to follow by the
orders of George Cup. So I simply forgot about it and
remembered it, when I saw one of the animation films
made by George & Steve – you can say it was Steve
who did the work on that films – at the Centre George
Pompidou in Paris in January this year. It was like an
old door opens slowly to the past with a strange noise.
You must know I left the States in 1980 and returned to
Paris. And all my thoughts about being a filmmaker were
left behind too. So I didn’t follow the career of
George Cup in the years after and I was surprised about
what I learned when I started to research after seeing
that animation film The connection between form and
sound # 15 that is also made in 1978, if I am right.
And it’s a beautiful peace. I remember that in 1978
and the year before, when we met the first time, George
and Steve had been very busy, a lot of
exhibitions and It was hard to catch them. That’s one
of the reasons why it took me nearly one year to get
this meeting with him in Easthampton.
S.W.
The private material of the life of George Cup &
Steve Elliott has nearly vanished. For the Research
Center the discovery of your film is very interesting
and valuable. Also the form of the film is quite unique.
There is no spoken comment, no original sound, except in
the beginning on the drive to Long Island. Is that why
you choose do start the film with three text frames –
the preface by the director?
M.S.
Yes, in the preface I explained why the film looks like
it looks and the difficulties I had with George during
the filming. He was very unpleasant in the beginning and
at the end. In the middle he was quite different, you
can see that when plays around with his own eight
millimetre camera. So it all started strange. When we
arrived he didn’t wanted to let us in, cause he had
forgotten our meeting. He just came out, said hello,
Steve is not present and that he is working, so we had
to wait or come back another day. It was really strange.
But what could we do? So we went in the park behind the
studio. A beautiful park with old trees and we started
to make some shots. But it started to rain, slowly but
than it turned into a little storm, and George still
didn’t wanted to let us in. So we took cover under an
old tree and continued recording. It was somehow very
beautiful too, but I was close to stop this whole
undertaking. And then after the weather cleared up
George was in a better mood. And he explained us the
rules for his studio. No talking and all that stuff and
I thought this isn’t going to work, but my friend and
assistant Pierre Moulin convinced me to stay. So we
agreed.
You
mentioned the form of the film and I want to say
something about that. The music is from Bill Evans.
It’s the LP From Left to Right from 1969.
George gave it to me with the comment to use this only
for the background sound. I wasn’t allowed by his
statement to use the original sound, which I hardly
agreed to, but I gave in. In that time I didn’t want
to have any trouble with him, maybe cause of his temper,
that was hardly to control. So I choose to give it a try
and it fits in perfectly I think, today. He wasn’t
wrong in saying that the film should speak for itself.
And if you follow the line of the film and what happened
than the music really make sense. You can call it a
happy accident.
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| Filmstills
from A rainy day with George Cup in
Easthampton, 1978 by Michel Antoine Seurat |
S.W.
You marked out the temper of George Cup. During
the film we can see how his mood changes. How was the
day under that aspect?
M.S.
Well it was unforeseeable how he would react on any
issue. For example the moment when he played with his
eight millimetre camera. It was after he made a pause
and had coffee, that he suddenly took his camera and
started to record us. I have never seen the results of
that, maybe there wasn’t even a film in the camera and
he was making fun of us. Anyway, he really was joking
around, following Pierre with his camera when suddenly
he stopped it and changed in what I would say, a
professional behaviour. Like he had realised that this
is not an adequate thing to do with us – in his way of
thinking.
S.W.
It is very sad that this beautiful shots at the studio
and in the park of Easthampton are in such sad
condition. What happened to the original material? This
is the last existing copy you said.
M.S.
I am very sorry for that too. I really cant recall where
I put the original material. I guess it stayed in New
York when I left for Paris in 1980. It’s a miracle to
me that I could found this copy that we can see now. Its
low quality but as you said, it’s the only existing
copy that remains. To be honest, I hadn’t thought of
all this since the 1980´s, and I still wouldn’t if I
hadn’t seen the animation film at the CGP.
S.W.
You said you were surprised of what you learned about
George Cup and Steve Elliott. So you had no idea of what
had happened in 1986 when George was arrested for murder
and in 2009 when George died?
M.S.
No I had no idea. It really took me by surprise. Well we
talked about his temper, so my first impression, when I
learned that he was imprisoned for murdering Steve, I
thought by myself that it would be possible. So it’s a
strange mixture of emotions I had, reading about what
happened. Especially the fact that he was innocent and
was released from prison in 2009 as a free man. That he
was quiet about his innocence all the years is a miracle
to me. I have no explanation. He (George) wasn’t a bad
person. He was just hard to take.
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| Filmstills
from A rainy day with George Cup in
Easthampton, 1978 by Michel Antoine Seurat |
S.W.
The object George is working on in your film is part of
the Lightsquare series, it looks like the Lightsquare
# 20 from 1970. Did George said anything
about this peace?
M.S.
(laughs) I thought the same when I saw what he was
working on. And I asked him about it, but that was the
only question I did asked him. He said that the
Collector had brought it to him for restoration, and
maybe that was also a reason for his bad mood, cause he
was really pissed about it – sorry but there is
no other word for a better description. He had to remove
the whole front to put new neon lights in it, and I
think he did the whole thing new. That’s what it
looked like to me. And he was a fast worker, really
fast. But he wasn’t satisfied with the result, maybe
the bulbs or something else, the quality of the light
was wrong, he showed us the door shortly after he had
finished the work. That was the last time I saw him. We
took our equipment and drove back to New York.
S.W.
In the end of the film there is a short passage where
you are visible in front of the camera, shaking your
head. Was this experience with George Cup one of the
reasons for you to quit working as a film maker?
M.S.
No. In the 1970´s I tried to make my own films and
there are some interesting results, but in the end I
realised that my work as a film editor was more
rewarding for me. There is always a point in life where
you have to make difficult decisions, that was a
decision I had
to make in 1980 when I retuned to France. And I don’t
regret it.
S.W.
Thank you for your time and this private look on the
life of George Cup.
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